An all-out battle for women's votes begins

I am not a McCain fan and I definiately didn't think he had it in him to nominate someone like this. Sarah Palin is outstanding. She has fought corruption even in her own party. She understands energy. She governs the largest state in the US. She is a strong compasionate sincere person. She boasts an aproval rating of over 80% in her own state. That is insane. What other govenor or senator can claim that? She has more experience then Barak Obama. Outstanding choice!

Hey, Getoutandstayout you remind me of that Miss South Carolina girl in the beauty pageant talking about the Iraq.

Sarah Palin is a joke, for McShame to take her a his running mate just shows how out of touch he is, to think that she could be the next president if anything happens to McShame.

she and Steven did want to build the road to nowhere and use the earmark funds for it, she is also under investigation for abuse of power when it was discovered that she and her staff call the police 25 time to complain that her sisters ex had threaten her Father

she is really a joke and only selected so Mc Shame could get Hillary's woman voters. This is really a bad choice for the republicans.

You're right... Even my Die-Hard Obama friends are chatting her up BIG TIME!
I think McCain made a daring, gutsy and calculated move by picking Palin and the Dems are falling all over themselves trying to comprehend the Straight Talk Express that just mowed them down!

Even Obama had to correct statements made by his staffers regarding her selection! This is amazing!

I see, only people with certain biasms are allowed to post derogatory remarks about other people. I guess defending myself is pointless with this kind of moderation.

It's amazing how little people know about the largest state in the Union. While our population is smaller, it covers an area difficult to comprehend, with much more diversity than the rest of the nation realizes. The problems the Governor must deal with are just as diverse, from almost third world conditions in areas vastly remote, to one of the most diverse student populations per capita in terms of native languages spoken in our largest city (national statistic). We are the crossroads of international trade; 53 miles from Russia on our westernmost border; surrounded by international waters along much of our coast and the diligence to national security that entails; a mirage of state, federal and BLM land; the northernmost defense for this country; rich in natural resources (ask about alternative wind energy development in western Alaska -don't just think oil here, folks); and, yet plagued by many of the same concerns and problems that span every corner of this nation. There are complexities to running this vast and varied state that the rest of the nation just doesn't seem to get. Sarah Palin has brought our state out of the holds of old party corruption with integrity, honesty, and plain hard work. She has "cleaned house" in her own party, crossed party lines to put the best person in the job no matter what political party, taken on Big Oil companies, and walks the walk in her personal life! People will bash her for being anti this and anti that. Hogwash, she is PRO, and I am thankful for that! While she may not have agreed with it personally, I do not know, she basically told the legislature they had to quit dragging and provide health benefits to same sex partners, making sure the State followed the law. She oversees a state budget larger than many, and through all this, her approval rating has stayed 80-90% or better. She has more experience running government affairs than Obama. I was a disenchanted voter to this point, but that has changed. Not because I am from Alaska, but because John McCain has picked a woman of gumption, smarts, integrity, grit, courage, a servant's heart, and a love of family and country (and don't feed me that CRAP about she should be home with her kids - between Todd and her they are taking care of their children, or does a wonderful and exemplary dad equally sharing those duties scare you?!). YOU GO, GIRL!!!!!!! What an example for my own girls!!!!!!!!

One more "fact" to share. This "ethics" investigation is a JOKE. The ones who should be investigated are the higher ranks in the Public Safety Department who continue to let a trooper carry a gun and be responsible for the public's safety who has, among other things: drank while on duty (eye witnesses), driven drunk and not charged but rather driven home by his own, shot wildlife out of season, domestic violence concerns, and threatened his ex father-in-law with "I'll shoot his f---- head off." He's currently on his 4th or 5th divorce due to DV. Palin promptly dismissed the staff member who made concerned calls, and invited the investigation. Once again, trying to break down the "good ole boy" system for the good of the people (this is NOT just about ex brother-in-law/custody fight). It's a matter of leadership concerns and taking care of staff that are a threat to public safety!!!

McCain has sold his soul to get elected. If he was SO concerned with Obama's qualifications for President, why then would he choose someone who's at best no more qualified and at worst much less qualified considering she's never been involved in National politics. She might as well be the governor of the moon Alaska is so far removed for National politics. No this is all about getting winning for McBush......it's the most shameful act McBush has ever engaged in. This cynical, pandering act does a disservice to his military record. I have nothing but complete disdain for him now.

What America 302560 is trying to say to Getout is he hates the FACTS he cited so like a typical liberal he resorts to insults when he cannot win the argument.

For a 72 year old McCain who has 4 bouts with cancer to make such an irresponsible decision as to pick Sarah Palin, who's experience amounts to 2 years as Gov of Alaska, is under a criminal ethics investigation by the Alaska legislature that could result in her IMPEACHMENT and is joined at the hip with GOP poster boy of corruption, Ted Stevens, and is a right wing extremist who will drive any Hillary Clinton into the Obama camp in droves, raises serious doubts about McCain's mental stability. I mean, did they even vet this candidate? Politically speaking it undercuts and demolishes McCain's entire campaign rhetoric and takes the "experience" issue off the table.

McCain's first executive decision and he picks a VP candidate under a criminal ethics investigation. She clearly abused her office and used her political position to settle a personal vendetta, fired a public servant who didn't go along with it and has been caught lying about it. She is being investigated by the Alaska legislature and the Alaska Attorney General and some in the Alaska legislature are seeking her impeachment.:

"Palin, who has previously said her administration didn't exert pressure to get rid of trooper Mike Wooten, also disclosed that members of her staff had made about two dozen contacts with public safety officials about the trooper.

"I do now have to tell Alaskans that such pressure could have been perceived to exist although I have only now become aware of it," Palin said.

But Palin said her decision to fire Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan last month had nothing to do with his refusal to dump trooper Mike Wooten.

The governor said evidence of what she called a "smoking gun" conversation, and other calls made by her aides, only recently surfaced as the attorney general started an inquiry at her request into the circumstances surrounding her firing of Monegan. Palin wanted the review because a special investigator hired by the Legislature is about to investigate the firing and a legislator has been quoted in a newspaper story talking about impeachment."

from Anchorage Daily News
Aug 14, 2008

Not all liberals were so cautious. Debbie Dingell, a loyal Clinton backer and the wife of Rep. John D. Dingell (D-Mich.), said she had been talking to women all day yesterday who felt "insulted" by the move. "This is just sheer political pandering," she said. "I don't think women are going to buy it."

The real damage that this does to McCain is that he looks like a herky jerky psycho to the American voters. After basing his entire campaign on trying to label Obama as "inexperienced", he turns around and picks Palin, who's experience amounts to 2 years as Gov of Alaska and he says she is ready to be president and commander in chief??!! It is KooKoo. A lot of moderate independent voter types I know are just going huh? Does he really think any Hillary Clinton voter is going to go for this right winger? Does he think woman are stupid and don't actually care about issues? It is insulting.

Not only does it take the "experience" issue off the table, but raises the judgement question, McCain's judgement, front and center. What kind of judgement does this show when McCain uses his first executive decision to pick a novice like this who is under a criminal ethics investigation that could result in her impeachment as his VP when he is 72 years old and has had 4 bouts with cancer? This is a dangerous and irresponsible decision. Obama, in contrast, made a reasoned responsible decision and picked Biden as VP, who's credentials are clear and unquestioned.

The herky jerky KooKoo message will continue to confuse voters when McCain tries to distance himself with Bush at the RNC convention when Bush and Cheney are both speaking at the convention. The GOP, KooKoo for coconuts!

I think that it was an astounding move by McCain. Sarah appears to be the type of person we need as a VP, someone who will undo some of the blatant corruption and the cronyism of the political parties. There will always be naysayers with their own agenda, but this independent voter is taking notice.

That's funny...Obama picks a typical Washington insider for his running mate indicating status quo. McCain picks someone who can't get any further from there. Hmmmm, got to make you think which candidate really wants CHANGE!

Well, I have truly appreciated all the comments here I have a few of my own to add:
First of all, please stop with all the name calling. It is immature, makes the person doing it appear to be less than intelligent. Barack Obama's name is muslim because his father was from Africa. African Americans today would have all had muslim names as well because different cultures name their children names that are part of that region. All of us are immigrants for that matter. The Native Americans are the true Americans. I don't even want to start with what atrocities they have faced at the hands of those who came to take their land using every bit of trickery and nastiness to boot. I too wish Hillary and her camp would stop whining. No one likes a source loser. Concede with dignity. We cannot all win. You gave it your best, now let it go. There is still more work to be done. On McCain's choice for VP: I suspect it may be a ploy to woo Hillary's constituents. I don't know if that choice was a wise one at this point, but all of us have be NEW AND INEXPERIENCED at something. She may do well, if he wins. That being said let me blow some myths out of the water: All African Americans are not blind democrats. I vote based on issues that I support. It is not right for me to call someone else stupid or anything else because they don't see it my way. I am voting for Barack Obama/Biden. Why? Because he SEEMS to be a good choice FOR ME. Am I voting for him simply because he is Black? No, I am voting for him because I feel I can respect him and he just happens to be Black. Can we trust him to be a good President with that Muslim last name and Jeremiah Wright, and Michelle may have said some things about being a proud American for the first time in her life...I listened to what she said, and most people have misconstrued it. Anyway, I thing we all need to sit down and listen to each other. Whites and Blacks see things differently because of slavery, and it's past time we try to understand why we feel the way we do. I don't mind open diaglogue from White friends who want to know why some of us feel like we do. It is complicated, but it goes along way to healing wounds. May I suggest this instead of the usual comments such as, 'Whitey just doesn't get it...or 'All Black folks do is whine!' This election year has shown just how much we don't know each other despite the hundred or so years we have spent together. So, instead of making widespread generalizations like all the women will vote for a woman or blacks are voting for barack just because he is black. Think. African Americans have voted for whites many years despite the past history not being postive with many. Look at how many still support Clinton. I have never been a Clinton supporter. Don't make rash judgements such as Blacks only get good jobs that they take from white people because of Affirmative Action. You can count the people on one hand that have given blacks jobs because of AA alone. Just because you are white does not make you more qualified. So, let's think before we talk. We still cannot get loans as easily. How can you get credit if someone will not give you a chance even if your work record is great? These are some of the problems we face. Assumptions that we are not as smart, hardworking because we are nonwhite. Low intelligence knows no race or gender. If you take sometime to know people instead of making rash judgements by a few, you would be pleasantly suprised to find most of us are bright, resourceful, hardworking, and dignified. Open your mind. Think, Think, Think.

I am amazed at the hypocracy of McCains choice for VP. I dont expect to get anyone on these chat-sites to REALLY THINK about this choice since everyone here obviously has their minds made up already.
But SERIOUSLY... is this not another example of McCain's flip-flopping? I mean he has pointed fingers a zillion times that Obama is not qualified to lead this country DESPITE THE FACT that Obama has already proven himself a very capable leader establishing a well-oiled Political Machine for himself. He has run a truly UNIQUE and SUPERB campaign, staying above the dirty politics that McCain has already shown by approving 30 second KARL ROVE ads that are innuendo, down-right lies, and almost boardering on slander.

Look at how Obama has drawn this nation TOGETHER and is trying to UNITE US... while McCain has resorted to the same ole tactics of divide and conquer... McCains campaign currently rates 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 on a disgusting scale..

Now he goes an picks a woman with next to NO political experience, NO FOREIGN experience at all, another hard-core anti-abortionist, a woman who *did* endorse the road to no-where in Alaska, and a woman who used all her political power at her disposal to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. McCain is *truthfully* old and not in the best of health... he may not survive another four more years and then THIS WOMAN will have to step up to being our President. She is NOT QUALIFIED to be President of this country. Her selection was pure political posturing and not a good selection as VP, already showing bad judgement on McCains part on a MAJOR DECISION of who to lead this country. This *is* more of the same....

Obama and his clearly defined policies are what we should be voting for - not just voting for another woman or against Obama because he beat Hillary. The fact that he beat Hillary and HER well oiled political machine in itself says alot about his capabilities of making sound decisions and surrounding himself by very good advisors VS McCain surrounding himself with ex-Bush cronies such as Rove...

Again, I dont expect to change the minds of ANYONE on these chat-sites as admittedly all our mindsets are in stone here, however, This choice of an unknown woman, untried and unproven, is a FAR INFERIOR CHOICE TO JOE BIDEN... What I see as voter is a Presidental candidate McCain who's politics are 100% diametrically opposed to mine and a totally untried and unproven Vice Presidential Pick VS Obama who's politics ARE in alignment with how I feel who picked an EXTREMELY QUALIFIED VICE-PRESIDENT who will help provide him with intelligence and experience to make a GREAT President...

So you folks make your decision based on sex and color... I will make MY decision based on experience, charachter, proven political skill and accomplishments in even becoming the Democratic Presidental choice against overwhelming odds... YOU DECIDE, BUT dont forget, the next four years rest in YOUR HANDS not Obamas or McCains...

p.s. before people start flinging out the typical "your a democrat what does one expect from you comment" Actually I am an independent who supported RON PAUL both fiscally and physically talking to friends, neighbors, relatives etc... to support RON PAUL.. a man who's ideas were 100% in alignment with mine... but alas, his Presidental bid was not to be.. Therefore in order not to WASTE MY VOTE... I looked at the ONLY VIABLE two candidates remaining and my choice was clearly defined... GO OBAMA.... and might I add that even Ron Paul who has not endoresed Obama, says that Obama's ideas are more closely aligned with his than any other candidate...

Tabhi, try learning something about a person you're condemning. I knew nothing about her when she was announced, but the more I read, the more I like her. I'm not saying she's perfect, but Mother Theresa is already booked. I think she is an excellent addition to the ticket. I hear all this crap about her pro-life stance, when in reality congress, not the pres. or VP make the laws. Then there's this noise about McCain pandering to the women's vote. Since when is appealing to 54% of the electorate pandering. According to some of the more radical LDLs, I guess McCain should have just told the women's vote to F******. Or even better, bring in some longtime beltway same old politico from, say, Delaware. Yeah, and then they can call it change.

Getoutandstayout - interesting take on this. She does run the largest state but I believe it also has the fewest residence and the smallest usable land area. There are more people in a NYC apartment building that she has in her state. She has been in office for less than 2 years so her approvals would be high - also she just had a baby 4 months ago - had to have gotten her a bounce in the polls.

I think she is probably a smart lady but that is about it. Will be interested to see how she holds up on the national stage - a couple of goofs and she and McCain have some serious problems. First one was yesterday when she said she hadn't been paying much attention to Iraq - that is always nice for a national leader and one who has a son going over there. More goofs to come I am sure.

Devil - I have been watching your posts this week. (Too long for my interest)

Anyway, your comment that Obama is "pulling the nation together" would not be supported by the facts (any polls). What it shows is that he is running a competitive race and has a slight edge at this point.

As far as "pulling the country together" - only in your hopes.

Logic people. Two questions,
1. If Palin was a man would people be lauding "him" as a good VP pick?
2. If very old McCain in the first month of office has a stroke and is either incapacitated or dies, would you feel comfortable with Palin as President?

Be honest with yourselves, she doesnt have the necessary creds for the job. I dont even know what her degree is in. This is an insult to the collective intellect of America. It is necessary to assume that through happenstance that if she were Veep she could become Prez. Would the Republicans or Democrats have nominated her for the top spot? Be realistic. I am very tired of the generally naive mentallity of the American public at large.

webbgurl said...

"I am voting for Barack Obama/Biden. Why? Because he SEEMS to be a good choice FOR ME."

this is the fatal flaw of the liberal mindset that is currently destroying and will continue to destroy our country.

it's not about what's best for "me". it's supposed to be about what is best FOR THE COUNTRY. what's best for this country is limited government, as it was supposed to be according to the constitution.

i don't want the government to "have my back" if something goes wrong. i want the government to get off my back, out of my pocket, and out of my way. let people be responsible and accountable for their own successes and failures. that's how we learn life's most valuable lessons and how we learn to succeed in life, peridod.

the way our government has operated over the past 80+ years is like a parent putting the training wheels on the bike after the kid has already learned to ride. this is NOT how government is supposed to be according to the constitution.

Logic - I'll engage in honest dialogue. NO. If Palin were a man, he would not likely be lauded as a good choice. NO. I am not comfortable with Palin being Commander-in-Chief day #1.

Do I think it was a good pick by McCain given the political landscape? YES!

I am disgusted that in a year when the GOP has done all in its power to hand the White House to the DEMs, they come forward with a woman that half the nation hates and a rookie black man as the options. Come on. Any centrist DEM like Evan Bayh or even Biden or Dodd could have walked away with this thing. Game over.

Obama is talented and has stirred many that in the past were not involved in the political process. I think he is honest. I think he has a great future in politics. I wish I agreed more with his approach to issues but we differ fundamentally. His tolerance at best and support at worst of Rev Wright troubles me a lot. Does he come from a culture of being a victim and hate?

The so-called 18 million Hillary supporters were not all on her bandwagon because of her issue position or 100% of them would have no problem moving to Obama. The polls show that 27% say they'll vote for McCain. That must leave a lot not ready to commit if 27% will tell a pollster today they are going to McCain. That means a whole lot of people that supported Hillary were voting the person and not the issues. That makes the Palin pick timely and brilliant.

I say brilliant because who would have thought that with one pick, McCain could solidify his base with a classic conservative, put such energy into the compaign and upcoming RNC that most expected to be boring and give an option to so many former Hillary supporters having trouble endorsing Obama and other undecideds?

logic - yes, i would be lauding her as a good pick. i've been touting her for more than 5 months. and yes, i'd be absolutely confortable with her as president.

my question for you is, where in the constitution does it say what kind of college degree you must have to be president? in fact, where does it say you have to have ANY degree? some of the stupidest people i've ever met had college educations. (i.e. look at all of the "educated" morons in d.c.)

Dems that keep saying stuff like "She isn't ready to be president on day one" need to take a seriously long hard look in the mirror. The irony is that she is more experienced then the dem's presidential nominee. How dare you question the readiness of the GOP's VP pick when your on Presidential pick cant even match up?

You think Democrats are afraid of Palin? You must be drinking Limbaugh's koolaid. What an insult to women everywhere. THIS is the Republican view of an adequate replacement for Hillary Clinton? A forty something mother of five with an undergrad degree in "communication" from IDAHO??? How stupid do they think women are? Just because she has the same equipment, we will fall all over ourselves to vote for her and McCain? Wow. The woman was a mayor of a few thousand people and now manages oil contracts, that is when she's not pumping out another kid. And, even in her short 20 month term, (some of which she was on pregnancy leave) she's already been accused of using her political power for personal gain. Well, that's a good fit with the McBush Administration. Obama was right, McCain just doesn't get it. And anyone that thinks a woman will vote a ticket just because there's someone with breasts on it, doesn't get it either. Her and McCain's anti-women's rights views will set us back a century. We might as well get burkas and take our little girls out of school if this is seen as something positive. This woman is being used, and if you want to celebrate that, then you deserve to live in the autocratic state you are blindly supporting.

Its not a replacement for anything. She is her own woman and she has her own merits. Its always about you or your candidate or your female icon. Guess what, it isn't. Give her some credit for who she is and what she has done.

Hey, Getoutandstayout if you look at the time of my first post it was around three in the morning after a long Friday night. I don't disagree or agree with your posts. But after seeing your multiple posts filled with rambling, the first image in my head was that girl from South Carolina in the beauty pageant. Call it deduction or subconscious criticism but that's what happened.

It is not fair if they deleted your post that was supposed to be a returned insult or feedback for me. But I will say this- I accept your insult/feedback always.

I hope you continue to improve accepting the fact that not everyone will agree with you or understand where you are coming from.

inyurhed - first of all voting dem is good for ME and good for my neighbor.

Secondly - you want the government off your back but it is funny how repubs are the first one to sneak in and ask the gov for help. Banks, Investment Banks, Corporations (fannie and freddie should cause a giant sucking sound on our collective wallets any day now).

You are so far into the talking points of the GOP that you actually believe it. Even Bush and McCain don't believe it! Otherwise why would government have grown under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II? Because they are pulling your leg and you keep falling for it. They think you are a chump.

i think you'll want to check the political contributions of all of those big, evil corporations. you'll see that they give to the libs as well. why? because they are interested in making money and don't want to get screwed too badly, no matter who wins the election.
but, not to worry...the O-racle will fix all of them by taxing them into oblivion. they in turn, will raise their prices to make us pay for the tax increase, cuz that's how business works. they are going to either profit or disappear...unless the government interferes where they do not belong.

did you get that last part? "where they do not belong".
you see....you're obviously under the false impression that i am a republican, a foot soldier in the GOP. i am not. i am a conservative, something the GOP can no longer claim to be. i believe in the constitution. the democrats don't know what that is, and the republicans are only interested in seeing how far they can stretch/distort it.
the fact of the matter is, the whole system needs to be scrapped and reconstructed from the ground up. the founding fathers were brilliant, but did not have enough foresight to see what the political hacks of the future would do to rape this country and its people....all in the name of saving/helping/taking care of them. nowhere in the constitution does it provide these roles for any branch of our federal govermnet. not that any of this matters to you....you'll likely be one of the first in line waiting for that wonderful government funded healthcare, all the while whining about another government bailout of some evil corporation.

Listen - corporate money goes to everyone and even more so to the party in power. Money is a corrupting force for many.

I find your comments interesting and probably would have given them more consideration (don't get excited, you wouldn't convert me) if you hadn't gone off the track and tossed in that crack about dems not understanding the constitution. That is BS from the word go and you know it - just a cheap talking point attack that is totally without merit.

You aren't going to scrap the system so you should probably try to figure out how to fix it slowly and contructively - it will probably net you better results that being so cynical and defeatist.

I look forward to the healthcare and I can't wait until we tax everyone within an inch of their lives and close every corporation down. That is our ultimate goal you know - once we close everything down we will truly have a great country - well after we get every gun and kill all the unborn babies. It is going to be so exhausting to get this agenda done. How was that? Did I play into your strange little outlook on life? Just want to make sure that I played all those fox a GOP talking points so I lived up to the image that has been created.

Oh

you may think it's a cheap talking point, but honestly.....how many of our "representatives" in d.c. do you think have actually read (much less understand) the constitution? it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how things were set up to work in this country. it also does not take a brain surgeon to see that for at least the last 80+ years, 90% or more of what our government has done has been contrary to the constitution.

but, you're kind of right. "i" am not going to scrap the system. the politicians have already done that for me. what i would like to see is enough americans getting sick and tired enough to actually take it back and restore the original document. it really was quite well written, and not that tough to understand. men far wiser than you or i made it quite simple....and we still managed to screw it up.

perhaps the words of alexander tytler (if they are indeed his) are ringing more true than we'd care to admit?

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. "

enjoy that healthcare...

I'm with you inyurhed. I'm neither a democrat or a republican. I'm only here defending this lady who has been unjustly attacked and slandered all because of political lines. Most likely, I will be voting Bob Barr or writing in Ron Paul on my ballot. This country is in a handbasket going to hell. The only difference seems to be who is carrying the basket and how fast we are getting there. I'd prefer not to vote for any party that is going in that direction. But I will say that the democratic party is sprinting to shake hands with beelzebub. They seem to think the constitution grants all these big governmental entitlements as rights. It does NOT. I think we need a new party. We should call it the Torch & Pitchfork party, because thats what we need to do to take washington back from both parties.

Anyone (male or female) will vote on issues and not on gender if they have any sense.

inyruhead and getoutandstayout - interesting posts - def enjoyed reading them.

First let me say this - Bob Barr is no different then the GOP you aren't interested in voting for. He was in bed with them while in office - lost his seat and they tossed him overboard - he is Cher at this point - just trying to do another tour.

Second - the Alexander Tyler quote - while interesting - isn't even a real quote. It was made up and attributed to Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser Tytler. He was a scottish historian in the late 1700's and early 1800's and nobody has ever found that quote in his writings nor 3 of the apparent books often attributed to him (among many that he did write) that espouse the same thinking.

Thirdly - I am sure that all (ok - almost all) of the members of congress have read the consitution - how many refer to it often I can't say. I can say that your concept of returning to it in its original form is out in left field. It is a living breathing document that adjusts to interpretation and the times - that is how it was created to be. If you want to go back to its original form you are certainly entitled to your opinion (so says the consitution by the way) however that being said you have to take it ALL when you do that. That means (among other things), Blacks and women lose the right to vote, blacks don't count as a whole person, slavery is legal. You better own a home or land because without that you won't have the right to vote even if you are white.

Turning back the clock isn't the answer - and voting for Barr or Elton John as a write in vote is a nice protest but it is like peeing into a hurricane - not gonna get you anywhere - I understand your frustration but just like many causes you often have to beat the system from within.

the quote may or may not have been tytler's. i made that point myself. who knows? it may have come from an interview. they did have journalism back then, too. or, it may be something from the imagination of another person who understands the basic failing of any government set up by man....and that basic failing is....people.

for me, barr is not an option. neither he, nor those who call themselves libertarian party members are true libertarians. and barr did not impress me much when he was in congress. i'd just as soon write my own name in on the ballot....and i just may. i figure that if an undereducated dolt like myself could do a better job in office than the clowns given as our only options, the truly wasted vote is on them.

i'd bet thyat the percentage of representatives without a law background that have read the document is fairly low. those with the background in law may have read it, but clearly do not understand it. if they did, this quote would have no meaning....

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -- James Madison

taking away money from one group to the benefit of another is clearly a power not granted to our government....yet it is done with wreckless abandon. the obvious way to gain a seat in our government is to promise more of this activity than does your opponent. so, to clarify, what i obviously meant by take back and restore the original document was to completely strip away the powers that the goverment has granted to itself via extraconstitutional means.

for example...congress has no right to abdicate its responsibility to declare war to the executive branch. nor do they have listed as one of their jobs to reallocate money from one group to another. judges and justices have no right to legislate new law via the bench. nor do they have the right to tell the executive branch how to conduct warfare once war has been declared. and it is certainly not within the job description of the president to tell me where to set my thermostat, what kind of light bulbs to buy, or what kind of fuel to put in my car's gas tank.

yet it is all of their jobs to create and keep a level playing field; not gauranteeing success or failure for anyone. they can't even do this one without giving extra benefits to certain groups of people, above and beyond what is constitutionally granted to each of us.

so, maybe the answer isn't turning back the clock. maybe it's time for a whole new clock. maybe the design of the new clock can be based on the design of the old, but, some improvements are definitely in order. there must be consequences for failure at every level, in every branch. there must be provisions for enforcing those penalties. there must be limitation on serving in that government. and lastly, there must be limitations on who can/will participate. (personally, i have no problem limiting voting to those who own land or have given a minimum amount of time serving their country, either militarily, in legit service to your community, or in a legit form of volunteerism.). this way, only those with something lose, those with an actual investment in the success or failure of the country will be responsible for the direction we take. those minimum criteria will provide the necessary incentive for the electorate to stay informed and watchful of that government, and keep the celebrity factor out of politics.

of course, no matter how perfect you make the system, i'm sure man will figure out a way to screw it up.....so, maybe we should just accept big brother into our lives, homes, communities....just say "screw it. i give up." maybe big brother really does have all the answers....

I can't believe any intelligent woman would vote for McCain let alone run as his VP. He comes across as a male chauvinist pig control freak domestic abuser waiting to happen.

Picking Gov. Palin was sheer genius, obviously! You can gauge how effective it was from the loud and silly outcry from wounded Democrats who know that their party is still split. John McCain hit is target and opened up a raw nerve when it had not even had time to heal. That's a fact and all the rhetoric and feel good smiles in the world at Denver can't erase the fact that 50% of Dem primary voters saw their preferred candidate left off the licket in favor of a rich, white ivy league male beltway insider who has been sitting on his hands in Congress for over 35 years. Moreover, and perhaps most imporatntly, Biden 1% of the primary votes at best, when HRC could easily claim half. Women, undecided and independents will look at that. It explains why BHO got no conventional bounce in the polls and why the race is neck and neck. McCain scores bigtime!

and the WORST thing that Democrats are doing right now is calling into question the supposed governing "inexperience" of Gov. Palin. (who is actually a candidate for VICE president). This is a perfect example of how they outsmart themselves and hurt their own party by calling immediate attention to the fact that their candidate has just as much experience (and none of it at executive levels) and in fact is runing for PRESIDENT, not VP. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Better than that, they are realy starting to sound like out of touch elitist superiors. Compare the elite look of the Obama-Biden ticket to the non-elite look of the McCain-Palin ticket, side by side. That is what the non-elitist voters DO see. That is why the silly outcry is NOT helping them.

Nothing wrong with such a political battle is there? I think that Hillary started it! The race is Close & HOT!

inyurhed - i have to say, you and I don't agree 100% - maybe 50% though - but I do like reading your posts - very thoughtful and straightforward - and thought provoking.

As for the Madison quote - I can't find that in any searches that I did - but I was able to find one that seems at odds with the one you posted:

To provide employment for the poor, and support for the indigent, is among the primary, and, at the same time, not least difficult cares of the public authority. (This is from the James Madison Center) - circa 1820.

here's a link to one of many that i found to the madison quote...

ok....this thing removes links. it's at

if i've made you think, then i've accomplished more than i expected, and am glad to have done it. that is how i got to where i am in my thought process.....somebody made me think. they pissed me off in the process, but once i took my heart/emotions out of it, logic took over. in that vain, i'll leave you with one more...

"the heart is no place for politics. feelings are great, but they've never solved anything. solutions come from the mind." - author unknown....sort of.

i see it removed even my typed link....wow. anyway, i found another quote that may be the original source for the tytler quote...

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville

he was born in 1805, so perhaps this is where the idea of tytler's quote was lifted?

Inyurhed - thanks for the additional quote.

Don't get to excited about how I said your posts made me think. They really make me think harder to defend my position - not switch my position. Not that that is a bad thing - I like someone to toss things out there that challenge the way I think.

Anyway - alexis de Toqueville quote is a good one. Actually just reread Coming to America again a few months ago - interesting book.

As for the Tytler quote - all information points to it being made up. Either way - I don't agree with it anyway. And I seriously doubt it was obtained through an interview - most press was based on articles and not interviews with notable locals back then.

Palin's "profound ideas" versus Obama's "just words"? Obviously, we didn't hear the same speeches. I thought that Palin's acceptance speech was perfunctory, nothing new, nothing unexpected.

I look forward to learning more about Sarah Palin as the campaign progresses, and to seeing her and Joe Biden square off, but I can't promise that I'm going to like what I learn.

Palin's "profound ideas" versus Obama's "just words"? Obviously, we didn't hear the same speeches. I thought that Palin's acceptance speech was perfunctory -- nothing new, nothing unexpected.

I look forward to learning more about Sarah Palin as the campaign progresses, and to seeing her and Joe Biden square off, but I can't promise that I'm going to like what I learn. From what I've already heard, she flip-flopped on that "bridge to nowhere" that in her acceptance she seemed so proud of opposing. According to the Alaskan press, Palin was on the record in 2006 as fully supporting it and other Alaskan pork projects.

80% approval rating!

... and how many people live in Alaska? This is a joke! Seriously! It's a desperate move for McCain, not a well-thought one, now I REALLY QUESTION HIS JUDGMENT. In the end of the day with McCain "it's more of the same!"

...and yes, i forgot to add McCain has 90% approval... to Bush's policies!

Not all liberals were so cautious. Debbie Dingell, a loyal Clinton backer and the wife of Rep. John D. Dingell (D-Mich.), said she had been talking to women all day yesterday who felt "insulted" by the move. "This is just sheer political pandering," she said. "I don't think women are going to buy it."

Who is Debbie Dingdong and who cares what she says Just like I do not care what Oprah Idiot says, each has her own agenda and will say anything to influence sheep which like a lot of people believe anything they hear without bothering to research them. Thank god I have a highly functioning brain and can make up my own mind.

timcord2

"I don't think women are going to buy it."

What makes you think that the picks is directed at women? That might be the typical knee jerk reaction to those inside the box. All the bashing of McCains pick are the typical responses from those who don't want to change and do you really think that the Dems are going to stand up and cheer? McCain could have picked Abraham Lincoln and it would have been a "bad pick" according to the Dems.

I am neither Democratic nor Republican, however I do see the pick as a guttsy move that shows that the old man isn't afraid to shake things up. Obama stayed to the status quo.

BTW Palin is smokin hot!

Chuck - please read my above comment...

CCdesign-

BTW Palin is smokin hot!

Please, she looks like an older Karen, from Will & Grace. She couldn't even get a scholarship based on her brains. She relied on her bod to get a scholarship through a beauty contest. How LAME!!!

Killerb

I kinda tought that Megan Mullally was hot back in the day as well...so what.

Let me guess.....democrate are you?

Well its disgraceful that your judging her and saying that you vote for the best person. That is incredibly insulting to both her and women. Out of all four nominees, she is the only one I would even consider for president. Your so quick to call this a desperate McCain move and take away everything about this woman that makes her outstanding. Try reading up on her and find out what she has done before casting stones.

You vote as you should. Just recognize that due to her ability to connect to regular families AND the fact that she is a female, many will call her the "best person".

Was this some senseless drivell you cooked up while drooling on yourself in church? You must belong to that special group that we all tried to ignore.

The invisible man in the sky should have nothing to do with this election.

I who am a Christian and believe in the Bible couldn't make sense of DODJIER's Post.

Good yes vote for whomever you want. it is your choice may the best person/ persons win this election

Take a step back here. I respect your voting for "the best person" and I hope it is based upon where they stand on issues that are important to you.

But I get concerned when I see 80+% of blacks voting for Obama - way above any other affinity group. That tells me some folks are deciding on grounds other than you are.

So don't so quickly discount this VP selection. Just listen throughout the weekend as you are out and about at what people are saying about Sarah Palin. She is getting some folks serious attention.

Why wouldn't 80% of the black voters go with Obama? Do you have some knowledge of why he would be a bad choice for them? I think you are confusing the black vote and the womens vote. They are different - very different. So don't go pulling the black vote nonsense into an argument without some understanding of the community and how they perceive Obama.

And even if 100% voted for him - whats the fear that gets all stirred up in you? Would you get freaked out if 100% of women voted for McCain because of Palin? Doubtful.

SM - Both of us are on shaky ground here because neither of us have the facts. Therefore I do not want to push the point too far.
Let me try this. Is the black community as a whole so different in their needs, expectation of government and position on the issues from the nation as a whole to explain why 93% of non-Hispanic blacks are FOR Obama vs only 37% of non-Hispanic whites.
That is a night and day difference. If whites do not vote for Obama because he is black, it is prejudice. If blacks vote for Obama because he is black, it is because "he understands their issues, he feels their pain, he is on the right side of their arguments".
That is what I am not buying.

My point is that many blacks vote for Obama because he is black and yes, many folks will vote for the McCain-Palin ticket because Sarah Palin is on the ticket.

seems like to me the blacks are voting MUCHO smarter than the whites this time around...

Devil - Your opinion is just that - YOUR OPINION.

I think the Christian Right is also wising up. There is more to Christianity than abortion & gays. Taking care of the poor is a duty that is repeated over and over. Republicans worship money and people who have money. The "ownership society" is just a sugar-coated version of "[economic] might makes right".

Your on crack and know nothing about this woman. She is a true crusader for fighting corruption and government waste. She is not some upper crust elitist. She is avery down to earth middle american.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HER??? OTHER THAN WHAT SHE WANTS U TO KNOW!!!

I know about her record and her personal life with having a child with downs syndrom. To choose to have a child like that instead of getting the reccomended abortion says alot about her character and commitment. I know what organizations she's a part of. Its well documented that she has taken stands against corruption even those who are republicans, especially those that are good ole boy republicans. She is not rich like almost every other candidate to enter the race for a long time.

I'm sorry...she has an infant with Down's syndrome...and has chosen the power of being VP and next in line when McCain dies to become President. That's not what I call "motherly instincts", so just cuz she had a handicapped child and then will "hire" him out to be raised by others while she pursues power doesn't qualify her as a woman of character.

And I'm sure she had this whole VP gig all mapped out when she decided to have the child. pfffft.

I was wondering when the whole "she has a infant with Down Syndrome" was going to start. This is going to be used in the same way the whole POW experience is. I admire her two older daughters and husband, who more than likely spend more time with, and take care of that infant. No wonder she believes in home schooling, full time babysitters. Of course she didn't have the VP gig mapped out, but she obviously chose her career over the best interests of her family. The office of the Vice Presidency will require a lot of traveling, and working long hours. I highly doubt you knew a thing about her, or ever heard about her until yesterday, like most of us.

Dodjier, try to control your racism. Realize you have been brainwashed to blame "whitey" for all the problems of the black community. Even though racism (both black and white) will always exist, if you work hard, you can always be successful in this country. By the way, the best candidate ever to run for office in my lifetime and who happened to be black was Allen Keyes. I only pray he was on the ticket again this time. He is a real practicing Christian and a great American.

Prettypleaseme..........The same can be said about any candidate with young children including O-ham-a

I believe her first speech made it very clear what is expected of her. She was selected to appeal to women. She praised two Democrat women and indicated she would continue their cause. She even quoted Clintons 18,000 cracks in the ceiling. In some of the post above you read statements like she is from the "largest" State and that she represents the common woman. I think the real facts will come to the surface very soon. She went from a Mayor of a town of about 10,000 people to the Governor of a State of about 800,000 people. Alaska is the largest State in area but one of the smallest in population. You also need to review the politics and diversity of the people in the State. What percent voted? Also what is the main product of Alaska?
I am not ready to judge because I have never heard of her and know very little about her. If McCain picked her then one would have to assume she represents his philosophy, or was selected to offset his weak areas like Obama picked Biden on the area of foreign policy.
The reality is still McCain verses Obama. The Vice President only comes into play when the President can't. Some of the post above are trying to compare Obama with Palin. Just like McCain with Biden. That situation is only going to happen if the President goes down. The Vice may be able to offer an opinion but the decision will be made by the President.
I believe women should pay close attention to the freedom Palin is given by McCain in her speeches. Will she be allowed to promote alternative fuels or condemn the big oil companies, special interest, and lobbyist, like she did to get elected in Alaska? Will she still promote the unions that her husband works for?
Before we judge her I believe we should see how she going to be used.

We should not give her a chance she will be very good for this country....and lol I know she is not muslin :) and she never went to Reverend Wrights sermons ha ha just kidding folks

The same way she is being used now to make McCain look better by making nice speeches and playing the good mother, is the same way she would be utilized as VP. She'd be seen, heard, and McCain would still be running pulling her strings and running the show.

Looking for change here is change REAL change a woman VP a capable, firecracker of a woman who has a firm stand on what she believes it and has proven it. Yes McCain will be her boss so yes he will call the shots and because so many fools are saying she does not have enough experience yes that is why she is the assistant to the Presidential candidate.

Not like Obama who will be in charge should he win, he has no experience and elected Biden who lost the election over and over as his running mate. So let us look at that, is that the change you want. Biden who was never voted for in essence all the people speaking up for Obama are all failed politicians except for the Clintons and I know they DO not believe in Obama they just did that for the greater good for the Democrats.

EXACTLY! And it also opens the door to talk about Obama's lack of governing experience in comparison!

Barack is the second coming of Christ he will bring 1000 years of peace.
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.(With Satan bound in the bottomless pit, the beast and the false prophet in the lake of fire, and all the ungodly men and women purged from the earth either at Armageddon or at the judgment of the nations (see notes on Matthew 25:31-46), there will be only a "few men left" (Isaiah 24:6) still in their natural flesh to enter Christ's millennial kingdom (Matthew 25:34). Redeemed Israel, having been saved both individually and nationally when she sees and accepts her Messiah (Zechariah 12:9-13:1; Romans 11:25,26), will become the world's chief nation. All the ancient prophecies and promises concerning Israel will finally be fulfilled (Isaiah 2:2-4; Ezekiel 37:21-28; Zechariah 9:10; 14:9).The worst is almost over our lord is here to save us.

This election is designed to divide gods people and the nations. The only way Barack will win is if he speaks on his religion and start preaching the bible and unite people in the spirit of faith and in the name of Jesus. Ask the people what would Jesus do. this is the election of life. Joe Bidan is Barack Obamas white horse
He has just as much experience in foreign police as John McCain. Barack is god sent. he was born during a comet in the sky that lasted over a month the bible said look to the ski for signs and Obamas birth was the result of that sign in 1961 Obamas choice of Joe Biden was predicted in Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Joe bidan is a man of god someone who god has chosen to guard Obama.it is true that
Hillary Clinton would have made a good President howver she is not strong enough for his ticket Obama needed someone with experience on foreign policy to lead us un into salvation
McCain pick of Sarah Plain is a distraction. Democrats need to stop focusing Sarah Plain not having experience on foreign policy. This is not the issue McCain has the forign policy experience. This only opens the door to attack Obama
McCain only choose Sarah as an attempt to divide men and women now that he have divided black and white. Sarah Plain is suppose to appeal to successful white people and women by being your typical white women who learned how to maneuver the devils system as it is .
McCain will try to deceive the world by announcing publicly that other than him the best choice for president would be Hillary Clinton. And his next choice was Sarah plain.
McCain will deceive women and play on there emotions having them belive that when he dies a women will rule
McCain will deceive white America by displaying the bad judgments of black men in history.

Katrina brought gods people out of the devils belly
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Compare Jeremiah 51:45. It is a sad commentary on Christian men and women throughout history that their avarice and desire for acceptance by the world has made them so willing to compromise with the spirit of Babylon as it was manifested in their times. Even under the terrible judgments and repeated warnings and pleas of the Lord's witnesses during the early years of the tribulation, there will apparently be a number of new Christians choosing to live in Babylon. As always, God warns His people not to compromise with the Babylonian system, but to separate from it (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).

Americans has become so concern with sex, money and power. We have drifted so far from the bigger picture in life. Barock Obama has a vision and the power to unite all the nations and provide liberty and justice for ALL

America has become a people who believe everything we see on TV and nothing we read in the bible. NEWSFLASH: The bible is the word of god!!!!! Have you ever wondered why our ONE NATION UNDER GOD has been everything but?? OR WHY you never hear anything good about religion in the media?? Americans have been programmed to live in fear of each other and the government and not fear god by the media.

Your god whatever name you call him is not in the media but we have faith in media more than our god.

John McCain is 72 years old with signs of dementia noted in his medical history, do you really believe he is capable of running this country?? Furthermore Sarah Palin has a good track record governing less than 5000 people the us is made up of 300,000,000 people and still counting . that's like fedex corp. turning over its operations to the manager of fed ex kinkos. And she will not be respected by foreign dictators leaving America open to attack

please tell me this was tongue in cheek? you're not serious, are you?

Sadly I think he/she is................... Probably not going to get much work as a political strategist though - if thats what the goal is. haha

First learn to read, then learn to spell, then learn grammer !! Obama

Palin may be like YOU, but she's NOT like me or like the people I know. Not even my conservative Republican friends are as far to the right as she is.

How is she not like you or your conservative friends? Please provide us with examples so we can better understand. Or is this just some knee jerk reaction based on no information about her?

Getoutandstayout,

Oh, no, it's no knee jerk. In fact, the more I'm learning, the less I'm liking. But then again, she hasn't said all that much about national or international issues and policies.

And as far as Palin's similarities to me or my friends, what planet are you living on? Are you suggesting that she's mainstream? She is so far in right field that she's past the warning track and about to hit the wall.

JPF - Once again you leave us wondering how she is not like you.

Drop the labels that mean different things to different people and just tell us your position on key issues and where you believe she stands. That is the way we all learn.

Yup, still waiting on how she isn't anything like you or your friends. Thanks for proving my point.

"Rational" Poster and Getoutandstayout -

You two are quite the conservative tag-team, aren't you? You remind me of a pro-wrestling team I once knew -- Kurt and Karl von Brauner. You should have seen them in action. . . quite a show!

All right, the first and foremost distinction is that Sarah Palin is not only anti-choice, she would end women's rights to decide to terminate a pregnancy even if the pregnancy were the result of rape or incest. In short, she favors total illegality. That is the most extreme position possible along the spectrum of views on reproductive rights. That's not mainstream. . . not even close. The majority of anti-choice advocates don't go that far.

Second, she and her spouse jumped on the Pat Buchanan band-wagon when he campaigned for office, pitchforks and all, against anyone and everything that didn't measure up to their own definition of social acceptability, particularly homosexuals whom they considered the destroyers of America. That's not mainstream. That's divisiveness and judgmental self-righteousness.

Third, she has no sense of stewardship toward God's creation, our planet and its environment. She wants polar bears taken off the endangered species list just at the time when scientists tell us they are most threatened with extinction. Apparently, she only cares about animals that she shoots or catches and kills. That's not mainstream. People have awakened to the reality of climate change and the need for responsible policies, not for more drilling in the ANWR (which, coincidentally, would benefit her husband and his employment in the oil and gas business).

There are three positions that Sarah Palin holds that I and my friends, even the conservative ones, do not agree with her on. Moreover, my guess is that as we all learn more about the true views of Palin (if we get that chance, because you can bet that she'll have a lot of helpful advisers around her now), she will be revealed as even more out on the right-wing fringe than what we see now.

Well - you got part of it right - "action". As far as women - she makes most look bad because she actually ahs accomplished things in her life - on her own.
While we are talking accomplishemnts - the responsibilitites og GOVERNOR rank much higher on the list than a 1 time, voted out states senator, and an incomplete US senatorial term spent in front of a camera!

Her decisions actually impact people. Her actions have influenced. The talk spewing from Obama is just that - TALK!
Alternative energy - she has done it - reform - she has done that too, take a stnd actually see it to the end through bi-partisan copperation - yep, done that too.

The job of presiednt requires actions, not propaganda. The liberals' choice, an anti-American, "I own a 4 million dollar mansion, but I am middle class", don't know if I am muslim, african American, or what exactly. In my great career - I have managed to accomplish little - but, we'll change and hope.

Yes, she is almost as far out in the field so she can join Obama in outfield seats! He is the first middle class 4 million dollar mansion owner I know. Bout you ????

77% of those that are pro abortion are men. So don't get into the abortion debate. She's pro-life and a working mother. Just like MOST American women.

Getout, what JPF is trying to say is Palin is EXTREME. She doesn't believe it is OK to birth a baby except for the head, then puncture the head to collapse it. She doesn't believe an unborn baby should get the death penalty because it was conceived by rape. She, like the Catholic church believes human life is sacred. How extreme!

JPF - My compliments on how well you articulated your point of difference with Palin.

Well done! Now we all understand.

At the core of your differences are a belief system - hers, mine and yours - that is not going to change. It deals with things as fundamental as our belief in and view of God and our relationship to Him.

My belief system and the position that I take on most issues must be similar to Palin's.

JPF-414693 wrote:
All right, the first and foremost distinction is that Sarah Palin is not only anti-choice, she would end women's rights to decide to terminate a pregnancy even if the pregnancy were the result of rape or incest. In short, she favors total illegality. That is the most extreme position possible along the spectrum of views on reproductive rights. That's not mainstream. . . not even close. The majority of anti-choice advocates don't go that far.

Although she is pro-choice and anit-infantile murder, I've heard that she doesn't take abortion off the table in rape cases. In contrast, Obama supports letting babies sit in a sink and die from starvation if they survive an attempt at an abortion. Now that is extreme. Let me ask you this: If a man kills a pregnant woman, he can be charged for the murder of two lives. So obviously we recognize the unborn infant as a life. So why should the mother choose to murder the child and not be punished? Seems like a double standard to me. Also, pro-life has been at the base of the republican party for a long time. Personally its not a big issue for me, but then I'm not republican. So I find it funny that your telling me your right wing republican friends do not recognize pro-choice when its a foundation platform to their own party. Out of touch? I'd say its your friends pretending to be republican.

Second, she and her spouse jumped on the Pat Buchanan band-wagon when he campaigned for office, pitchforks and all, against anyone and everything that didn't measure up to their own definition of social acceptability, particularly homosexuals whom they considered the destroyers of America. That's not mainstream. That's divisiveness and judgmental self-righteousness.

And yet she has campaigned for equal benefits to those of same sex partners even if she doesn't beleive in same sex marriage. She has clearly reached across party lines here for the benefit of the people. I guess the only way she becomes acceptable to you is if she wears rainbow ribbons and shaves her head butch. You have a funny idea of republicans, do you happen to live in San Francisco? That would explain a lot.

Third, she has no sense of stewardship toward God's creation, our planet and its environment. She wants polar bears taken off the endangered species list just at the time when scientists tell us they are most threatened with extinction. Apparently, she only cares about animals that she shoots or catches and kills. That's not mainstream. People have awakened to the reality of climate change and the need for responsible policies, not for more drilling in the ANWR (which, coincidentally, would benefit her husband and his employment in the oil and gas business).

News Flash ---- The polar bear's population has been dramtically increassing over the last 30 years and has increased by over 500% The only reason they are on the endangered list is because the green extremists are using the ESA as a tool to choke our country to death on energy independence, which is not what the ESA was designed for. Its dirty politics.
Anwar is a nasty piece of land the size of an airport. It is practially devoid of life. I've seen the pictures. If we don't get our act together, we are going to sign over the deed to this country to one of our enemies or they will just devide it up amongst themselves. Until you have a magic wand that can *pop* out some magic technology and all the infrastructure to use it, we are going to keep tumbling down into economic ruin. The price of energy effects every aspect of our daily lives and businesses. This is called reality. Now the smart man will do EVERYTHING to prevent this. That means he will drill, gas, clean coal, wind, solar, hydrogen, all of it while researching new technologies. Not doing all of the above is plain naive and ignorant. But thats the Obama plan: naive and ignorant. After all, those are the voters they are gunning for to beleive a bunch of big bold words. They just don't want you to read the fine print where it tells you that you will lose personal freedom, become completely dependent upon foriegn oil, herald in the true Big Brother of 1984, Socialism and marxism.

Oh and last I checked, her husband was a fisherman.

Hey Get - I have been thinking about addressing that post all day but you handled it better than I could have.

By the way, have you heard that Mars and Jupiter's average temperatures are going up?

Shall we blame that on those nasty humans and their fossil fuels or do you think maybe there are other explanations as to why the planets' temps are cycling higher?

Its obvious that temperatures are going up because Bell Bottoms went out of style back in the 70s. See the bell bottoms allowed for pockets of air to cool while in the shade. This brought the temperature of the planet down and kept things perfect. But after bell bottoms went out of style, global warming has taken off. Unfortunately, Bell bottoms will never come back in style for main stream civilians, so I am afraid our planet is doomed.

Well isn't that rich. Pot ---Kettle, Kettle ---pot. This is comming from someone who supports a candidate that alters his view as the wind blows. There is not greater example of political expediency then Obama. Oh the Hypocracy!!!!

I hope you are right - this country needs a depression - weed out the socialistic crap this country doesn't needand maybe - all this energy spent whining can be put into the new jobs we'll need to make it back! We need vehicles off the road, fewer cell phones, and the line will be shorter when we go out to eat - because there hasn't been much of a slow down yet.
Poor individual choices do not equate to poor policy or a recession.

Oh Anthony there are more stupid women and men in America than any other country! What is the point? Stupidity aside It was a brave move and I like reformers as I am one myself this is good for America

"weed out the socialist crap this country doesn't need..."

Would that include the 'socialist crap' of bailing out businesses and financial institutions with poor lending policies whose officers got their share up front, the airlines, and providing big oil with tax breaks? Quite the 'hand-outs' there.

Maybe this country does need another depression. Those of us in the country, as in 1929, will survive because we have the land and resources; the city folk, as in 1929, will be lined up at soup kitchens and dying in unheated apartments. Before you go touting another depression, maybe you should study the facts of the last one and what it took to get the country back on its feet.

No she is NOT! Quit spreading false rumors, that is someone else in alaska (one of the senators if I'm not mistaken). She is actually the one who has filled the paperwork on the previous corrupt govenor who happened to be a republican. She is praised in her state for standing up and fighting corruption. Don't listen to these liars. Get your facts straight before you start slandering people.

You'd better check your facts again, Getoutandstayout. She is indeed under an ethics investigation by an independent counsel hired by the Alaskan State legislature. The report is scheduled to be released on October 31st.

The investigation regards the firing of her brother-in-law, a state trooper. He was abusing her sister and they are investigating if she inappropriately used her position to try and get him fired.

Regardless of the report, I'll bet the electorate will give her a pass on that one.

I thought you were talking about a 'real' ethics investigation by our federal government, like the other low lifes that have been imbezzeling money and making corrupt deals with lobyists. I didn't realize you were talking about some independent spurning by a disgruntled person who deserved to be fired. Thats not an investigation. Thats someone who got their feelings hurt when they got called for abusing their own power. She did the right thing.

Your lack of morality getoutandstayout is presented to the entire world with your imature post above. The abuse of power, in any situation is completly imoral and worthy of impeachment, termination, and publication. If she indeed was responsible for the termination of a political enemy, she needs to be called on the carpet. That is dirty, down right dirty. I for one , do not want a immoral republican zealot for VP. If she will be immoral and dishonest with the "little things" as you seem to imply, what kind of scandal can we expect if she assumed the role of VP?
Food for thought. Its all about living in the 'light' of decency. Particularly when you perceive no one is looking at you.

Anthony or as I like to call you Buck, I hate waste. I hated it when my party wasted it on trying to remove Clinton from office. They didn't have the votes and knew it and wasted millions of our dollars.
On the flip side I hated it when Democrats fought for Florida in 2000 and wasted millions of our dollars that year too. They couldn't win so why fight? The state was Jeb Bush's so who do the Dems think he was going to vote for and send republican delegates to vote. To continue, the supreme court who did the Dems think they were going to go for. Hello Bush. Last, at the time the senate was a majority Republican who did the dems think they were going to vote for? They wasted millions of dollars fighting for something they didn't have a prayer of winning.

I'd say firing a law enforcement agent because of he was physically abusing someone is called doing your job. Its a witch hunt and you know it. This is what people commonly refer to as 'grasping for straws'.

It's also called taking the law into your own hands and abuse of power. If what you say is true then he should be prosecuted through proper channels. The gov can't be judge and jury for her sister.

Abuse of power? With an 80% approval rating - doesn't sound so abusive. As aGovernor, she actually makes decisions, is accountable, ang has 'changed' politics for her state. Also, its an administrative position which means that she has executed more responsibility than Obama who was voted out as a 1 term state senator!

I was curious and excited by Mcaine's choice of Palin yesterday,I was curious cuz she is a woman and excited by the Governer's bipartisan effort of takeing down that corrupt Republican senator stevens(which won his primary even though he is corrupt,that doesnt sit well with me that the Repuplicans of Alsaska dont care about the corruption or they would not have voted for him)Then I find so many other things out about Alaska's politicians they all seem slimey,the Dems and the Repub's.Alaska has a huge surplus,because of oil,my state has a balenced budget but most do not,not because of Big Oil,Palin is under investigetion there are 2 indictments,one has to do with the fireing of her brother-in law and the other i didnt catch but i am sure you can look it up if you want,Palin was mayor of a town of 900 before that a hockey mom,before she became Gov. of Alaska,and we have cities on the mainland with more population than ALASKA,watching an interview she did on cpsan in Feb. Alaska is a young state with not much infrastructure,her words and I believe her possiblity of being POTUS is extremely high sense mcaine just turned 72 yesterday(happy bday Mcaine)and USA is gonna be too much for her,On Cspan in another interview just a couple of months ago,she was asked what she thought about her being vp,and she was shocked,and played down herself as just a hockey mom that wants to work on her state,and asked about Iraq she states she is so busy with her state she hasnt even given Iraq a thought,PLUS she is a social conservative,most republicans I know are fiscal republicans,(The only reason a Hillary supporter would vote for Palin is if they only vote for women and not for women's issues,)Listening to her speak(cute as fargo)She will make an excellent puppet by the extreme right,because she is extreme right,Our nation needs not another right wing administration,they have ruined my trust that they even care about the people in America,and Palin is a lame choice,pandering on Mcaines part towards the right that he feels doesnt respect him enough and if it gets him a few looney hillary supporters all the better,It is all about winning and not about what America needs

She is nowhere near bush ideologies. Do your research before touting the company line. That Bush 3rd term is equivelant to swift boating. Stop with the slander and stop with the fearmongering.

oh boy I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Now you're accusing US of swiftboating when you claimed it never existed in the first place. How funny, so I guess since you admitted it now you can go on CNN and tell them that it was all a con job against kerry. You were an easy one to draw out, your handle kinda gave you away . Let me write that handle down real quick so I can send an email to all the news networks telling them that the swiftboat thing was a real conspiracy like we have been telling them for four years.

And I was not comparing HER to bush, I was comparing her to Malkin and Coulter but it seems you guys already have your plan in place to get rid of McCain and use her as your puppet. This country is in real trouble now. Is Abramoff doing this from prison or is Norquist running the show. Oh yes I forgot about rove, you guys are just pure evil.

I will gladly engage in debate and exchange of ideas but I have never knowingly shared inaccurate info.

They say that you only look under the bed if you have hidden there. Have you posted deceptive info on here?

You called me a liar and unless you can substantiate that, please cease that kind of attack. I'll spar all day on ideas.

Let me refresh your memory 'Only a complete idiot (CON) would vote for four more years of McBush. " So yes, you did essentially say that it would be a vot for four more years or a 3rd term for bush. Hey look there, you even made a funny by writing it as McBush. Also, you should know, I'm not a republican so you can drop the whole misdirection of he said she said stuff and focus on the debate instead of trying to debase the poster. Tsk tsk.

Hey outraged - what is it you're so mad about? Afraid someone might actually make you get out and do for yourself?
Or is it that she has accomplished more of the "change" than Obama? Or is it too much TV teling you how bad it is and to blame your inadequacies on someone?

How is she change????just because she doesnt have a penis????

And you do?

Carlito,I am not running for V P on the fact that I don't have a penis,like Palin is,asking for women that supported Hillary to vote for her just to break glass ceiling,is ludicrous, they(Hillary and Palin) politically have nothing in common hence the remark

"Possible" but not "likely" yet!

AnthonyB

Your comment shows your degree of understanding of the issues and the strengths of the President. This election is about more than just Iraq.

Your insults show that you are only intelligent enough to see one side of the story. It makes you appear like a dog with a bone, you will growl and posture because the bone is yours even though someone is offering you a steak dinner.

You should at least respect the accomplishments of the people involved for their intellect, compassion, intellect, strength, morals, respect at becoming the representatives of the respective parties.

If I was a liberal on the fence, your comment would make me want to look with interest on McCain and Palin just because of your infantile response. Look at the big picture and investigate before make the wrong decision.

Nice try Ben 306323. But that wont hold up. Sorry, although I am more liberal than you are, I stand behind all of my assertions. The fact is the country is gone to hell because'YOUR' right-wing politics. Your *tunnel* vision causes you to lash out at THE truth which is America needs a Savior - one who undeniably will LISTEN to the will of the people when they said get out of iraq, one who realizes that tax breaks for the rich dont spawn economic growth. Trickledown Ecomoics of Reagan are best left 'for the big screen' - that the public might be entertained.

The writing is all on the wall. McBush cemented his own political coffin with the ascendancy of this idiot VP Nomination. I believe the Republicans will be ROUTED like the dogs that they are. Maybe in 8 years of propserous democtratic leadership, they 'mimick' the leadership of the winning party.

Mark my words, McBush and his pet [Palin] are DOOMED. You gotta love 'desperate' political posturing.

OBAMA / BIDEN '08

I'm with you. She is more experienced than Obama and has an outstanding record of service even if it is lite in the load. She is exaclty what Washington needs, someone to trim our government and find and end the corruption. Thats why she has an approval rating of 80% in Alaska.

80% Approval rating in Alaska? HELLLLLLO.. We are talking about Alaska right.. as in POPULATION = 1200 People, lol. Give it up NEO-CON republicans... your just as washed up as McOld. Time to retire in Florida Republicans LOL. Your days are over. Well, I know you are aware of this. Thats why they (Republicans) fight so hard for relevance.

At least she has a record to back up who she is. She isn't just a windbag of empty words. Anyone can say hope and change. But she has actually proven herself to accomplish those exact goals. She is a better barak obama then obama is. And the good news is that she isn't a marxist. Talk about being a puppet, he's your true manchurian candidate.

Sir, Alaska is the last state in the union that should be used as a 'mark of excellence'. Its population is extremely small and not large enough to represent further comment. Larger states are going to have lower aproval ratings given the amount of diversity in a larger state. Its mathematical. Speaking of numbers, you might want to consider them before you use ALASKA as a gage of success. Its a very limited, tiny, small population with a tribal mentality. Most other states have ideological, phisolophical, ethnic, and gender diversity that makes it impossible to please everybody.

That was great, your Sarah Palin did a video clip a few weeks ago saying she wasn't going to answer the question about whether she would be VP until someone explained to her just what a VP does.

I knew that by middle school social studies. Thats going on YOUTUBE real fast. BYE BYE SARAH

Its called being humble and not making it look like your out for some power grab like some other candidates.

Really because I saw her on cpan and she just looked like a really cute deer stuck in the headlights to me when asked about vp but wait let me put on my republican glasses....................................................Oh I see it now.....................NOT!!

I'm familiar with the Job Description of the VP. The list is short. I, too wonder what a VP does for the rest of the time when not attending funerals and casting a vote to break a tie.

Body movements like there's a stick in your butt, cleaning your shotgun, learning to spell potato, or picking up a dog by its ears?

ask dick cheney,at least Palin is a better shot and can give cheney a few pointers as how not to shoot your friend in the head while hunting.......look a positive on Palin wow found one

Americans are really ready for a leader without insider experience, which is why Obama did so well in the primaries, they wanted CHANGE, instead they got veteran Joe Biden. Now insider McCain chooses real change and America will respond affirmatively. The subtle yet not mentioned tactic is that McCain has dived right into the CHANGE issue and made it work for him, too! That is why Gov. Palin was his best & wisest choice: not another Biden. Anyone else who not have been for CHANGE at all. Hence, the vile invective!

Were you expecting someone with a liberal position on the key issues? Heck no. This is the GOP.

That fact about the VP selection does nothing for Obama - no surprise on that fact.

Being a woman, now, that has shocked everyone.

With one selection, McCain solidifies the base with a classic conservative while at the same time appealing to a group in the middle - especially females that are not ideologues - plus he brings energy and attention to the campaign that is always a good thing.

You sound like a UAW worker! What do you know about recession your making 27 bucks an hour. Democrats stand for welfare. Democrats stand for taking money out of your pay check. Look at Democrat neighborhoods, gun shops, pawn shops, liquor stores all by the dozens. You don't see that in Republican neighborhoods because they want you and I to succeed. It wasn't until Merrillville Indiana went Democrat that it started looking like Gary Indiana or better yet Hammond Indiana. Don't you have kids? Where would you have your kids raised in a republican or a democrat neighborhood. I believe if you have two hands and two feet you make your own way no government living, no hand outs. Where do you think your income tax goes? It goes to hand outs. I say stop all hand outs and make people fend for themselves. I honestly believe people will step up and work instead of starve. Think about your thought before you post Anthony!

John-467240 Your post was full of fallacy. You are so far off the wagon its not even funny. I am intelligent and educated and with respect, It would appear that you are far from educated given so many assumptions born of your limited imagination. The truth is in the pudding: Look at the last 8 years, look at the value of the US Dollar, look at our reputation in the international community, look at increased terror activity [directly corelated to BUSH/MCCain failed policies] look at the price of gasoline, look at the price of food, look at all the young courageous American Soldiers coming home murdered, look at the forclosure mess, look at our deficit. YOU'D HAVE TO BE A MADMAN TO NOT SEE THE total FAILURE that the BUSH presidency has been. And now McCain (Bush Jr) wants 4 more years to add insult to injury? HELL NO, MCCAIN Has Got to Go!!!!!
OBAMA / BIDEN 08

Tell me your not a Union worker? Those men and women know there is a chance of war when they sign up for duty. So don't go their. They know the risks from the word jump. As far as foreclosures that is the banks fault for giving loans to people who didn't deserve them. The banks didn't do their jobs in following the credit scores. They allowed people with bad credit to get loans. If you have bad credit you do not deserve the american dream plain and simple. As far as the deficit that is the congress and the senate fault. I will admit Bush has lacked the veto that his daddy and Reagan had. Bush is a real man but Reagan was a real mans man with common sense. You have to get glasses because McCain is no Bush you Carter loving liberal. You would hand this country over to a Carter like who let our hostages sit over in Iran. Carter Obama its all the same with the Democrats.

I am clearly understanding you think the Bush Administration was a rousing 'success'? He did everything with integrity and rightful thinking? He didn't butcher the U.S. Economy? Please tell me I misunderstood you sir.

I concede he didn't help the economy by not using his veto pen but you have to concede that it has been the Democrats at the helm of the ship in congress and senate and they have done nada or nothing whatever term you choose. They did nothing at all these past years to bring down the deficit or end the war that they are so against now! He should of been more like Reagan and got in front of the tv camera with his desk full of newspapers and said their are thousands of jobs if you want to have food clothing and shelter you need to go get one of those jobs listed in the paper. Yet he didn't. For that he failed in that part. In being leader standing up to terrorism he did his job better than any Democrat in the past or the future. The only man I think that could of did better was Ronald Reagan or Theodore Roosevelt.

Complaining about the Democrats in Congress not getting things done and being ineffective while they do not hold a veto-proof majority and the Republicans continually stonewall and filibuster, and the President goes yet again to Crawford or Camp David (the only modern President to make it a part-time job), is disingenuous and ignores the facts. Having a simple majority in Congress doesn't ensure that you can do whatever you want, that you can establish all of the policies and pass all of the laws as you see fit.

And you honestly believe that in every respect save the economy George Bush has done a great job? Wow. The facts speak for themselves.

Hey Anthony and JFP - When did the president make economy? I missed that news flash that we aren't free market. Also, the message is clear in the media - blame Bush for everything - mostly poor individual choices -and we'll change.
So, what bills have been introduced that have vetoed???
If they claim to 'make it right' lets see action.
The 1 main bill that hasn't made it anywhere was Pelosi's idea of increasing tax on 401ks, IRAs, investments, capital gains, and inheritance in the name "getting the rich"- to pay for better services to illegals and others - well, I am middle class and that puts a huge bullseye on my family and children!
How about you name some legislation vetoed??

You should name-call some more and all get together later with Rev. Wright for more 'how-tos' on how to a better American! Obama - done nothing for the great, big state of Illinois - oh, wasn't he voted out as an incumbent state senator after 1 term???

Em - Just let Anthony and JPF go.

They represent a segment of our populous that believes the government is responsible for giving or at least creating their opportunities for them. This group is unlikely to ever see it differently. They are the "takers" in society and what scares me is the "takers" are getting close to outnumbering the "givers". In fact, they may today.

So far the "takers" have not been reliable voters though the risk is that Obama has aroused them with his "giving" promises and being "takers" they are ready to sign on. If Obama turns these folks out at the polls, we are really in trouble.

Longer term, then, everyone is in trouble, because as "givers" get taxed higher and higher, they will withdraw from economic activity, jobs will decline and a downward spiral ensues.

Rational - your interpretation of a liberal is not only wrong but it is an old talking point that is beyond tired. That concept was creating (quite well) by Reagan's PR people and it stuck for a while. However - it isn't even remotely true. You seem like a smart guy - do some research - talk to some liberals and drop the tired old talking points.

I am willing to be educated. I am also aware that there is a continuum in any belief system and yes, my post overstated an extreme to make a point. It represents my fear.

I fear the country has lost personallresponsibility and too many are looking for the Federal Government for direction and "help" in their own lives. The government's primary role is National Security. They MUST do that first and foremost.

When I listened to what Obama had to say in his speech, it was massive on giving with little regard or comment on how - NO - WHO - pays for it all.

Tell me what a "liberal" is in your view. I'll listen and learn.

You've got to be kidding? Bush never used his veto pen??? That pen was permanently glued to his hand if the bill was put forward by a Democrat. And don't kid yourself. McCain will be a carbon copy of Bush. He'll have to be to keep the oil magnets happy or they'll throw him under the bus.

Nah. Palin is not moderate enough, at least, not for this woman. In fact, this settled it for me, Barry it is.

I'm a moderate, and I don't find any reason to appreciate McCain's choice at all. He's thrown the dice, and I think I know the result.

"Player" is about right. "Brilliance" is not a word I would use in the same sentence with Republican Party, tonight.

Your post contradicts a lot of other folks that share your political leanings.

Mitt Romney is to the right of McCain and YOUR people would say the pro-choice Hillary supporters would "never" vote for a pro-life candidate. You say 20% would.

If 20% of Hillary supporters would have been in play with Romney, I think the McCain team would be thrilled with their VP choice.

And yet she still has more experience then the Democratic president nominee. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Now that should tell you something about your party, when the opposition's VP pick is more qualified then their own presidential pick.

She also said Hillary should stop whinny

You speak of her lack of experience, but what experience does Obama have?? He has been a junior senator for 4 years, (the last year and a half running for pres). I say as a governor she has done more things associated with a presidency than a junior senator. What was the last budget he worked with? When was the last time he used veto power? When was the last time he could pardon someone? Also, Palin may be under investigation for some ethics issues, but the investigation will find that she did exactly what she had the right to do as governor. The people dismissed were serving at the pleasure of the governor, and she was no longer pleased!

To the 1st: Out of Spite 20% of hillary supporters would have voted for McCain, not caring what the issue was, but since McCain slapped them in the face by thinking if he put a women on the ticket they'd flock to him has angered a lot of people who were thinking about voting for him. It wasn't issues those 20% were worried about, It was revenge. The 80% that care about issues was already voting for Obama.

To the 2nd: How to you figuire that? Obama graduated Columbia University then Harvard Law with a Juris Doctorite specilizing in Constitutional law, magna cum laude before becoming a Community Organizer and going on to the Illinois State Senate from '97 to '04 then from '05 to now he's been a senator for Illinois (The 5th Largest State in population), where he's been a committee member of the Foreign Relations, Enviromental, Vetrans Affairs, Health, Education and Labor, as well as Homeland Security, Government Affairs and Chairman of European Affairs.

Sarah Palin in contrast was a beauty queen who won a scholership and got a BS in Journalism with a minor in Political Science from Idaho U. Was a City Counselwoman, then Mayor of a "city" with barely over 5000 people, then was Governor of the 3rd smallest state for 18 months.

to the 4th: Just what we need, someone else who feels they can abuse there power just because they can. Well she can't, which is why she's being investigated. Something that Bush and Cheney need as well.

ooooooo a community organizer under the tutelage of Saul Alinski, self proclamed Marxist. yeah thats who I want shaping the next president. Or maybe I want that Frank guy Obama wrote in his book from Hawaii who is an infamous communist. Or maybe I want rev wright who is a black liberation theologist which has its ties with Marxism spouting hatred and racism and the destruction of the US. Maybe I want him shaping our next president. Maybe I want our next president to be close friend with father flagherty who hates his own race to the point where he pretends he's a different race. It wouldn't suprise me if Ward Churchill had a connection in there somewhere. Maybe I want our next president to come out of the most vile corrupt den of thieves running a government, that being chicago, in the whole country. maybe I want my next president to be influenced by a wife who hates her country and makes statements that look like they came right out of the Mousilini handbook for facism, "Barak will require you to do this, Barak will require you to do that, Barak will make you get rid of your traditions....You will serve the state, commrade".

Yeah your right, those qualifications are just sooooo much better!!!

Good grief, I want Hillary to get a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court, not a lame vp job.

The very Senior Senator from Arizona made an awful pick for his VP. There may be a political calculation in there somewhere, perhaps a bit of leacherous old man, but nothing about a good leader to succeed him should his age catch up with him.

McCain threw the election.

Thanks, gramps!

This is just too easy:

Thurgood Marshall the first black justice on the Supreme Court of the United States.

President John F. Kennedy appointed Marshall to the United States Second Circuit Court of Appeals, which had jurisdiction over federal district courts in New York, Connecticut, and Vermont. In four years as a Court of Appeals judge, Marshall wrote 98 opinions (essays explaining the logic and principles underlying a ruling), none of which were reversed by the Supreme Court.

In 1965 President Lyndon B. Johnson appointed Marshall solicitor general of the United States. In this position he once again argued cases before the Supreme Court, this time on behalf of the United States government.

In June 1967 President Johnson nominated Marshall to the Supreme Court. Two months later, Marshall was confirmed as associate justice of the Supreme Court by the United States Senate.

Bush the first gave us Clarence Thomas need I say more.

That is true they have never did anything but talk about helping minorities and throw them a bone every now and then. You have to go back to Wilson, it was the Democrats that were the real racists. It was the Republicans who freed the slaves. It was the republicans that appointed a black man to the supreme court not once but twice. It was the republicans (Reagan) who appointed a women to the supreme court. Republicans are always appointing minorities to top spots. Not because they are minorities like the Democrats do because they believe in Affirmative action, but because they earned it. Plain and simple Republicans do things not for pandering but because they are usually right.

John, this is an argument I've heard before, but every time someone brings it out, they miss an important fact-- in the latter half of the 1800s, the Republican party was the more "progressive" of the two, and the Democrats the more "orthodox". Yes, the Republicans in Congress freed the slaves and worked for political and social suffrage during Reconstruction, and yes, you could even make the case that the first KKK was the "militant wing" of the Democratic Party-- OVER 100 YEARS AGO.

Though I'm sure Lincoln is a source of pride for the Republican Party, using him to prove the moral bona fides of today's conservatives ignores most of the changes in society that happened during the 20th Century, especially in regards to issues of race and gender politics. As far as I can tell, the Republican Party gained most of its modern constituency by playing on the fears of people who were unhappy with the advances made during the civil rights movement.

With all the rhetoric about gender and race, it's important (for both sides) to understand that the main divisions in society today are more along the "orthodox/progressive" lines I mentioned above. People who believe that all moral judgements were made in the past, that agrarian, pre-industrial conceptions of government still hold true, and that there are some consistent, unchangeable measures of value, goodness and identity will line up on one side-- people who believe that morality partakes in the spirit of the modern age, that personal experience is as necessary as received wisdom, and that government can and should reflect the conditions of the modern, industrial or post-industrial society, will go the other.

I would also argue that your re-conceptualization of Affirmative Action reflects a misunderstanding about the purpose of that program, and an essential problem in the way it has been applied (or been seen to be applied). To apply it as a factor in the hiring or appointment of high-level positions, don't you have to prove that they were "unfairly" accepted to college, or that they got their first job on the "quota" systen?

You're right about both individuals. You fail to mention that the republicans used and destroyed Colin Powell by sending him in front on the UN with false intel.

Democrats do it for free because we love our country and hate the lies and half truths that are being spread.

Republicans do it for the money because they love money and have no soul.

we are not voting for men versus women we are voting for the person most competent to do a good job running this nation.

But yet a huge portion of voters are voiting Black vs. White if you are black.

Seeing as how Blacks are less than 25% of the population, I'm pretty sure there is a large percentage of Whites supporting Obama. That is how he is going to win. That, and the fact that McCain made a mistake for vp choice. Not as bad as Romney, for other reasons, but pretty lame nonetheless.

Please inform Iowa of this! What non-sense you speak. It's simple, McCain chose politics over people.

Your point is a fail. 90% of a single demographic based off race or gender is voting for obama. If that is not a discriminatory representation then I don't know what is.

You need an education Getoutandstayout.

Discrimination is not defined as voting for a particular candidate. That is called voting your conscious or voing for an individual who is ideologically in alignment with you. Discrimination is when you seek to 'intentionally' diminish another persons chances for success, opportunity, or advancement based on race, gender, age, or sexual orientation [gotta put that one in there for the times we live in].

Getoutandstayout, Education makes a big difference. I suggest visiting your local community college or [high school] first though.

You try to define a word and make it central to your argument, yet you still fail at the concept on which the point has been made. How about I use the word Racism instead of discriminatory? Does that make it so you can understand the subject better? Or do I need to label parts of the sentence as nouns, verbs, adverbs, etc...? I chose not to use the word racism because gender is part of the subject issue. How about biggotry? Does that work better for you? I'm sure you will try to use some sort of misdirection and attack me, the poster, instead of the argument. Thats what people who cant present their side of the debate do. So keep it up, its apparant which one needs to go back to school.

Hey Anthony - like most liberals - you don't have an original idea or how to make it happen. So, trash talk, blow smoke and blame - you must have watched the great freak show parade recently in which - "blame, change, blame some more, and then the genius liberals will fix it". Sorry, I don't need more governemnt, higher taxes, or a person with 20 years of anti-American preaching representing my family. We actually earned what we have. A 4 miilion dollar middle class mansion - now that is something to laugh about - seeing how you are full of funny things to talk about!

Obama earned his money and in the entire time of Palin Governorship,is when he made the most on his books,the ones like you Republicans "quoting" taking out of context on this site many times I have seen,so you made him even richer,and Obama when not in politics,was all about his education and has studied the Constitution front back and center,he has spent many more years learning and participating in his communities making it a better place while Palin was being a hockey mom,We are supposed to worship her because she chose to have a child with down syndrome,alot of people would have aborted because its a life long disability and the children usually way outlive parents and they need constant care,(and Republicans are against universal health care)I can respect her for it,but telling all others what to do is wrong,abortion is usually the wrong choice,but it is a choice,whether legal or not,Take a history lesson of America during time when Abortion was illegal and all the problems that in tels,it happens whether legal or not,Life and issues that are important to people aren't black and white there are alot of grey areas.Plus Obama isn't advocating universal health care like Hillary he is for keeping everything the same,but if you cant afford health care,some will be made available which helps MIDDLE CLASS

Em, "original ideas" don't do well in politics anyways-- they get re-articulated by one's opponents as "radical" and "un-American".

However, I'm not quite sure that your argument holds up. Hasn't the last administration presided over one of the largest periods of government expansion in the recent past? McCain says he won't raise anyone's taxes, but isn't his limit on insurance premiums, in effect, a form of tax burden? Or do you make more than $5 million annually, and so are out of Obama's "Middle Class", but well within McCain's?

And these ad hominen "guilt by association" attacks are just laughable. If I go to the garage, does that make me a car?

There are more than one way to screw up our country, just because someone preciously has screwed it up doesn't automatically mean that the next person has the answer. They very well may screw it up even worse. I think one has to fully examine the ideologies of the possible successors. Unfortunately, I think they will only throw gas onto an already existing fire.

The majority of African Americans have voted Democrat ever since the civil rights movement when Republicans sided with the South in their decision to keep discriminating against African Americans. Democrats are more concerned about African American issues and have had 80% of the African American vote for a long time. The fact is that African Americans didn't even back Obama at the beginning, they initially supported Hillary. Even the NAACP initially supported Hillary over Obama. So don't say African Americans are being racist for supporting Obama. If that is the case are whites being racist for voting for Obama? Perhaps they just feel like Democrats are more concerned about them than Republicans are. I don't see that many Republicans concerned about the poor, African Americans, Hispanics are women. The truth is most Republicans suscribe to the theory of neoclassical economics which "views competitive markets, individual initiative, and government policies that leave the market alone as being sufficient to level the playing field" (Albelda, Drago, & Shulman, 2004: 5). Which essentially means that the free market will solve all of societies problems. On the other hand Democrats believe that the poor and minorities are caught in a oppressive class, race, and gender relations that can only be changed by fighting alongside others who are committed to to helping their cause (Albelda, Drago, & Shulman 2004:5). Which basically says we all have to work together and help one another to make things right for everyone. Personally I suscribe to the Democrats ideology because it reminds me of Biblical principles. We are suppose to give to the poor and help one another. I don't believe in the Republicans ideology because it sounds to much like every man for himself, God for us all. While I do agree with Republicans on a lot of social issues (but not all) it never ceases to amaze me how they never want to help anyone but themselves. I think that no one is a hundred percent right. For example how come Republicans are pro-life yet for the death penalty? They say it is because of their belief in Jesus. Well Jesus said turn the other cheek. When the woman was caught in the act of adultry which called for the death penalty, Jesus told her to go and sin no more. It seems to me they are more concerned about making sure everyone aknowledges that life begins at conception (which I agree with) but they act like it ends at birth. Once you get here you are on your own, and if you commit a crime you are as good as dead. How come social conservatives spend so much time judging others? They are so concerned about homosexuality as if someone is asking them to join in.

Oh and by the way I am educated and very well read in Public Administration, Political Science, Criminal Justice, and Religion so just in case you are wondering I didn't have to watch CNN, FOX News are MSNBC to get these "talking points" or as I call them facts I actually went and read an array of books and got an education so I know what I am saying.

So if I vote for the white guy, I am being racist? because I am white? or maybe old farts who sound like a bush parrot don't appeal to me. so I if vote for the black guy, am I being racist? besides funny to hear a republican talk about racist issues.

Here we go with the Hussein thing. Barrack has Joe Biden. McCain is so old his vp pick will end up becoming president most likely.

Hussein Hussein. Thats all you racists bigots have. And all of a sudden all you Republicans are feminists when it's a dead behind the eyes conservative lady like Laura Bush or Ann Coulter parroting your sexist remarks.

I was a Hillary supporter because she had a brain and was an inspiration to women. Not a Stepford wife.

Hillary an inspiration.....yes and no. She and Bill are very intelligent, but they are Marxist. And so is Obama. This country was set up to be a Republic, not a socialist democracy. If you think taxes are high now......just wait if the Marxist get into power. Denmark is taxed 50% for health care in their society. Sweden has such high taxes, I know of citizens that fly out of that country to shop in England to avoid the tax.

Hillary an inspiration.....yes and no. She and Bill are very intelligent, but they are Marxist. And so is Obama. This country was set up to be a Republic, not a socialist democracy. If you think taxes are high now......just wait if the Marxist get into power. Denmark is taxed 50% for health care in their society. Sweden has such high taxes, I know of citizens that fly out of that country to shop in England to avoid the tax.

koobee, please get your facts straight or stop talking about my country. You obviously haven't a clue.
You should also read up on Marxism, you haven't a clue on that either.
Over all Americans are not considered very bright in my country as well as the neighboring countries.
You voted for George Bush TWICE, now some of you Americans are actually going to vote for him
again.... just under a different name. There, I proved my point.
God help you people if the old guy gets elected. I'm glad I don't have to live in the US

where else can the money come from when bush cheney spent all the surplus left over from the clinton years? china ??

I'm not sure that Palin will get the Hillary vote. They are two females that want to lead this country in different directions. Palin is much more conservative than McCain.

Palin has been mayor of a town of 8 thousand people. Now she is Governor of a state that has about 670 thousand people. Since she has not served out her term we really don't know how well she did as governor. I think she has been governor just a little over 1 year.

Obama is Senator of a state with 13 million people. I think that is a fact we need to concider about experience. Plus I want some change in this country. If voters think we need to stay on the same path I guess they should vote for McCain. Why not just keep Bush if you like the way things are going. Gas at 4 bucks a gallon, and the economy in the dumps.

Republican for Obama

McCain tried to split the baby by appealing to the conservatives by choosing one of their gold card members and choosing a woman (any woman) to try to pull away the Hillary vote.

ps: I find it disgusting that the Republicans are planning to exploit the Gustav tragedy by turning their convention into a "relief" (read election contributor list building) telethon.

Actually, I find the Republican efforts to aid with Gustav humbling and unselfish... At a time when the party can raise money for the general election, they will raise money for the victims... it's the right thing to do, and it makes me proud to be a Republican...

McCain Palin 08

AD2.....Actually, I find the Republican efforts to aid with Gustav humbling and unselfish... At a time when the party can raise money for the general election, they will raise money for the victims... it's the right thing to do, and it makes me proud to be a Republican...

McCain Palin 08

well, they don't really have a choice, do they? if republicans want to stand a chance in november, they really don't have much choice to do but do the right thing this time. But, to me, unfortunately, this is all just a propaganda on their part.... they're just once again, taking advantage of other people's misery...republican's effort to rebuild their image is a little too late!

of course they have a choice. they could do what the libs would do; pay the victims lip service and go ahead with the fund raising anyway...

When the VOTERS decided on Obama, then that was that. Why have Hillary in a vp spot, when there is a chance for her to be protecting women's rights on the Supreme Court? I'm not even a Demo, but this year's election, I am.

If you truly were a hillary supporter and past dem you wouldn't vote for someone just because they don't have a penis,because that's the only thing hillary and palin have in common...........HELLO